Hi Rob- I know you are aware of this paper, but others might find of interest
I hope you are 100% recovered
Best Wishes
Pielke Sr., R.A., D. Peters, and D. Niyogi, 2022: Ecology and climate of the Earth - the same biogeophysical system. Climate, 10, 25, https://doi.org/10.3390/cli10020025
Great work Rob. I wonder to what extent creating sauna-Iike conditions thru wintertime in the Arctic -subarctic region is doing to our cIimate in addition to heating those regions and meIting ice and snow. I'm assuming you saw this from AIi. A podcast and articIe beIow. We have further detaiIs to work out on the eIectro- magnetic effect up there on this water vapor winter Sauna.
Thanks, Cliff. I wonder too, and saw Ali's excellent piece. There's so much there. Actually there is so much in every direction. A am stuck in my own mid-latitude, but am turning my eye north, digging into Ali's paper and then your book.
Cropping and grazing occupy approximately 50% of Australia's land mass with much of the rest being too dry to be of productive use. Cropping leaves 30 million hectares baren and bare between rotations and dryland grazing offers very little in rehydration during dry spells, all of this effects cloud and heat with flow on effects into the rest. Our worst fires are after drought years after the vapor pressure differential has sucked all the water it can out of our forests usually to be rained out over the ocean. Micro climates create macro climates what more is there to say?
A side note which may be of interest, in relation to the theory of the 12km2 forest which is the minimum area to effect climatic conditions. Because so little energy is needed to lift water small distances and so much of the desert land near the ocean is so flat has anyone done the necessary research around using self draining salt marshes and mangrove forests to help kick start this process? Lifting water a few meters is only 9800j per 1000 liters per meter (less pipe and pump friction) and 12km2 is only a half meter high levee of 14km in length, could we be creating our own areas of rehydration which also offer many other agricultural and ecological solutions? Think of areas in the middle east, the top of the gulf of California, across the top of Africa to name a few.
Another idea I have been toying with in relation to floods , in many of the cleared agricultural areas the only thing that stops the fast flow of water off the hills into the flood plain is friction, as soon as the water is above a frictional point it accelerates at close to force of gravity as it has very high viscosity. this then accumulates in the lowlands at a greater rate than discharge, thus flooding. In nature the best growing region for trees is in the nutrient and water rich areas along these streams and perennial water courses thus they grow tall shading out the competition and help clear a path for water if we have not already cleared it ourselves for grazing. If we were to mass plant this riparian section and partially up the slope and coppice we could create a continuous quick growing supply of high quality timber. With siltation fences or companion planting especially at choke points of interlocking spurs we then could turn a high flow rate and its destructive inertia into a slow release filtration system. This adds to the hydrological cycle in both wet and dry without the need for expensive dams. Miyawaki method crossed with viticulture
Theodore, if you haven't touched base with AIi @ Regenerative substack. He couId easiy add to your ideas above . great stuff, he'd appreciate hearing from you and all your thoughts
AIi wiII be Ieaving for EngIand at the end of this month for two weeks. He and Peter Bunyard are going to carry out some experiments in 4 or 5 different gIass encIosed biomes, housed in a cavern area I think in CornwaII. These are highIy controIIed biomes mimicking exact weather conditions from dessert to sever tropicaI to Actic and in between. They are testing plant species and how they hold up under the different biomes.
Information from the research will be used to determine best species to plant in a variety of biomes. And how they handle water conditions.
HI Cliff, I have talked a bit with him adding some of my ideas to his comments, my problem and I guess is the same with many people is that we have no land on which to work. We almost need another investment model where we can not only buy some land to test ideas but also offer them to people in the right locations at no cost to them so the money would need to come from an investment community.
we need as many ideas and solutions relevant to each bioregion as we can get - innovative ideas are whats needed as a fellow Aussie I know the extent of dry to flooding and we need to start working with this in more productive ways to limit the devastating destruction
HI Cari, A lot can be done but we need to work smarter as the scope is so large.
I have been thinking a lot about QLD inland erosion after seeing a Land Line story on the cost and equipment to repair just a fraction of one gully system through regrading and replanting and growing up in part on a property with the same gully erosion in NSW. One possible solution is the use of sedimentation fabric with tensioned angled fencing within the gully to let nature do the backfilling. If the fence is angled toward the flow and tensioned both down its length and with extra stakes toward the flow and the fabric is secured with a tail each side over the fence and pegged then the fabric should allow backfill one side and an overflow slope the other. The speed of the overflow in flood could be a problem but if this is continued down the problem area it could flow from pool to pool. Spreader levees was another solution they are trialing as parts of this area are so flat and receive periodic hard rain events, One farmer is now rehabilitating thousands of acres with a foot high levee he made with his tractor in a few days. Watching the flow on drought across the bottom of the country over the past few years and knowing that it will only get worse definitely is one of our most pressing concerns.
Good day Theodore, One wouId have to view this project simiIarIy to a company that purchases Iand for a graveI pit. However instead of denuding/destroying features you'd repair them. Then move on to another project. This company or cooperative wouId have aII the equipment resources avaiIabIe then move onto another site.
IocaI or nationaI governments wouId need to budget for these reparations as part of repairing our cIimate of course there may be new ways to invest in such Iong range wide undertakings. More peopIe couId be trained and empIoyed to form more Cooperatives working with same techniques for repair. But each organization and Iocation wouId have a fuII array of resources to meet the specific chaIIenges of each project. Teams working in cooperation.
There is a whole community beyond the climate modellers that have been discussing this topic for many decades from Australian scientist Walter Jehne who has been talking non stop about restoring the Soil Carbon Sponge to help cool the planet to Allan Savory's work on Holistic Planned Grazing to reverse desertification. The Savory Global Network of approximately 50 Training Hubs is a big player in expanding Regenerative Ag. with herbivores. Academia treats them very poorly but as you may be aware most research grants in agriculture come from the chemical corporations and genetic seed producers who are behind the modern Industrial agriculture that is poisoning and degrading the land, animals, human health, and the climate. So it is good to hear that some climatologists are examining the important role that biology can play.
Excellent reporting by Erica Geis! Our living climate systems model has struggled with finding data and models to support what we have been hearing from the field for over a decade- it is the living systems that create climate and when they are destroyed or compromised by loss of biodiversity, climate breaks down. We have a course on Climate and Water starting July 10! Four sessions with key researchers like Dr. Anastassia Makarieva and Walter Jehne. https://bio4climate.org/course-offerings/water-and-climate/
Hi Rob- I know you are aware of this paper, but others might find of interest
I hope you are 100% recovered
Best Wishes
Pielke Sr., R.A., D. Peters, and D. Niyogi, 2022: Ecology and climate of the Earth - the same biogeophysical system. Climate, 10, 25, https://doi.org/10.3390/cli10020025
Thanks, Roger. Full recover is around the bend, though it's a wide one with COVID.
Great work Rob. I wonder to what extent creating sauna-Iike conditions thru wintertime in the Arctic -subarctic region is doing to our cIimate in addition to heating those regions and meIting ice and snow. I'm assuming you saw this from AIi. A podcast and articIe beIow. We have further detaiIs to work out on the eIectro- magnetic effect up there on this water vapor winter Sauna.
https://r3genesis.substack.com/p/164-the-earth-sauna-audio-version?utm_source=podcast-email%2Csubstack&publication_id=899805&post_id=162800940&utm_campaign=email-play-on-substack&utm_medium=email&utm_content=play_card_post_title&r=2ddkm6&triedRedirect=true
Thanks, Cliff. I wonder too, and saw Ali's excellent piece. There's so much there. Actually there is so much in every direction. A am stuck in my own mid-latitude, but am turning my eye north, digging into Ali's paper and then your book.
Cropping and grazing occupy approximately 50% of Australia's land mass with much of the rest being too dry to be of productive use. Cropping leaves 30 million hectares baren and bare between rotations and dryland grazing offers very little in rehydration during dry spells, all of this effects cloud and heat with flow on effects into the rest. Our worst fires are after drought years after the vapor pressure differential has sucked all the water it can out of our forests usually to be rained out over the ocean. Micro climates create macro climates what more is there to say?
A side note which may be of interest, in relation to the theory of the 12km2 forest which is the minimum area to effect climatic conditions. Because so little energy is needed to lift water small distances and so much of the desert land near the ocean is so flat has anyone done the necessary research around using self draining salt marshes and mangrove forests to help kick start this process? Lifting water a few meters is only 9800j per 1000 liters per meter (less pipe and pump friction) and 12km2 is only a half meter high levee of 14km in length, could we be creating our own areas of rehydration which also offer many other agricultural and ecological solutions? Think of areas in the middle east, the top of the gulf of California, across the top of Africa to name a few.
Another idea I have been toying with in relation to floods , in many of the cleared agricultural areas the only thing that stops the fast flow of water off the hills into the flood plain is friction, as soon as the water is above a frictional point it accelerates at close to force of gravity as it has very high viscosity. this then accumulates in the lowlands at a greater rate than discharge, thus flooding. In nature the best growing region for trees is in the nutrient and water rich areas along these streams and perennial water courses thus they grow tall shading out the competition and help clear a path for water if we have not already cleared it ourselves for grazing. If we were to mass plant this riparian section and partially up the slope and coppice we could create a continuous quick growing supply of high quality timber. With siltation fences or companion planting especially at choke points of interlocking spurs we then could turn a high flow rate and its destructive inertia into a slow release filtration system. This adds to the hydrological cycle in both wet and dry without the need for expensive dams. Miyawaki method crossed with viticulture
Hope you Heal quickly ,all the best.
Great ideas, Theodore. Amazing the possibilities that arise when one works with rather than against nature.
Theodore, if you haven't touched base with AIi @ Regenerative substack. He couId easiy add to your ideas above . great stuff, he'd appreciate hearing from you and all your thoughts
AIi wiII be Ieaving for EngIand at the end of this month for two weeks. He and Peter Bunyard are going to carry out some experiments in 4 or 5 different gIass encIosed biomes, housed in a cavern area I think in CornwaII. These are highIy controIIed biomes mimicking exact weather conditions from dessert to sever tropicaI to Actic and in between. They are testing plant species and how they hold up under the different biomes.
Information from the research will be used to determine best species to plant in a variety of biomes. And how they handle water conditions.
HI Cliff, I have talked a bit with him adding some of my ideas to his comments, my problem and I guess is the same with many people is that we have no land on which to work. We almost need another investment model where we can not only buy some land to test ideas but also offer them to people in the right locations at no cost to them so the money would need to come from an investment community.
we need as many ideas and solutions relevant to each bioregion as we can get - innovative ideas are whats needed as a fellow Aussie I know the extent of dry to flooding and we need to start working with this in more productive ways to limit the devastating destruction
HI Cari, A lot can be done but we need to work smarter as the scope is so large.
I have been thinking a lot about QLD inland erosion after seeing a Land Line story on the cost and equipment to repair just a fraction of one gully system through regrading and replanting and growing up in part on a property with the same gully erosion in NSW. One possible solution is the use of sedimentation fabric with tensioned angled fencing within the gully to let nature do the backfilling. If the fence is angled toward the flow and tensioned both down its length and with extra stakes toward the flow and the fabric is secured with a tail each side over the fence and pegged then the fabric should allow backfill one side and an overflow slope the other. The speed of the overflow in flood could be a problem but if this is continued down the problem area it could flow from pool to pool. Spreader levees was another solution they are trialing as parts of this area are so flat and receive periodic hard rain events, One farmer is now rehabilitating thousands of acres with a foot high levee he made with his tractor in a few days. Watching the flow on drought across the bottom of the country over the past few years and knowing that it will only get worse definitely is one of our most pressing concerns.
Good day Theodore, One wouId have to view this project simiIarIy to a company that purchases Iand for a graveI pit. However instead of denuding/destroying features you'd repair them. Then move on to another project. This company or cooperative wouId have aII the equipment resources avaiIabIe then move onto another site.
IocaI or nationaI governments wouId need to budget for these reparations as part of repairing our cIimate of course there may be new ways to invest in such Iong range wide undertakings. More peopIe couId be trained and empIoyed to form more Cooperatives working with same techniques for repair. But each organization and Iocation wouId have a fuII array of resources to meet the specific chaIIenges of each project. Teams working in cooperation.
In the USA The Nature Conservancy might be interested to invest In a starter project. They have a huge financiaI resource.
Welcome back. Thanks for the paper.
Hi Rob,
There is a whole community beyond the climate modellers that have been discussing this topic for many decades from Australian scientist Walter Jehne who has been talking non stop about restoring the Soil Carbon Sponge to help cool the planet to Allan Savory's work on Holistic Planned Grazing to reverse desertification. The Savory Global Network of approximately 50 Training Hubs is a big player in expanding Regenerative Ag. with herbivores. Academia treats them very poorly but as you may be aware most research grants in agriculture come from the chemical corporations and genetic seed producers who are behind the modern Industrial agriculture that is poisoning and degrading the land, animals, human health, and the climate. So it is good to hear that some climatologists are examining the important role that biology can play.
Excellent reporting by Erica Geis! Our living climate systems model has struggled with finding data and models to support what we have been hearing from the field for over a decade- it is the living systems that create climate and when they are destroyed or compromised by loss of biodiversity, climate breaks down. We have a course on Climate and Water starting July 10! Four sessions with key researchers like Dr. Anastassia Makarieva and Walter Jehne. https://bio4climate.org/course-offerings/water-and-climate/